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Any Old Iron 1:02 Sun Oct 30
David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

From todays Telegraph

David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six
In 69 attempts, Moyes has never has never won a league match away to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Manchester United

By
Sam Dean
29 October 2022 • 10:30pm
David Moyes and Jurgen Klopp - David Moyes has broken barriers at West Ham, but away trips to the 'Big Six' are his nemesis
“We have been to Anfield and lost narrowly, and lost at Chelsea narrowly. We have got to see if we can change that little bit of unluckiness into luckiness," Moyes says CREDIT: AP

If one image could summarise David Moyes’s painful away record against the biggest sides in the land, it was the sight of the West Ham United manager falling to his knees on the touchline during the final moments of his side’s narrow defeat at Anfield this month.

With 86 minutes on the clock, and West Ham trailing 1-0, the ball fell to Tomas Soucek in the six-yard box. A goal seemed inevitable, until Liverpool midfielder James Milner materialised – seemingly out of thin air – to deflect Soucek’s shot wide.

Such was the shock of it, and the instant anguish of Soucek’s failure to convert, Moyes’s legs gave way.

David Moyes on his knees - David Moyes has broken barriers at West Ham, but away trips to the 'Big Six' are his nemesis
David Moyes fell to his knees after Tomas Soucek went close to equalising in the final few minutes of the defeat at Anfield on October 20 CREDIT: REUTERS
While it was an unfamiliar pose for the West Ham manager, kneeling in horror at what he had just witnessed, it must have been a relatively familiar feeling.

Away trips to the “Big Six” have been a constant source of frustration for the 59-year-old, who has broken through so many barriers at West Ham but is still waiting for his first victory at the home of one of the top teams in the Premier League.

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It is not just a problem he has faced at West Ham, either, as Moyes experienced similar difficulties at Everton, Manchester United and Sunderland. So much so that he has never won a league match away to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or United as manager – in 69 attempts.

Match No 70 away to these sides arrives on Sunday, when Moyes returns to Old Trafford with a West Ham team growing in confidence after a slow start to the campaign. West Ham have won six of their past eight matches in all competitions, and would move to within three points of United if they won.

While the history books suggest another Moyes defeat is likely, there is a sense that West Ham are getting closer to landing a major blow away to these “Big Six” sides. They are certainly causing plenty of problems for them: Chelsea needed late winners at Stamford Bridge this season and last, while United struck a 90th-minute winner in the same fixture last year.

At the London Stadium, meanwhile, West Ham claimed victories over Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool and Chelsea last season. Moyes has built a team capable of upsetting the big boys, and it is surely only a matter of time before his players produce a similar level of performance away from home.


“Last year we beat Chelsea, we beat Liverpool, we ran the top teams really well,” Moyes said. “We have been to Anfield and lost narrowly, and lost at Chelsea narrowly. We have got to see if we can change that little bit of unluckiness into luckiness, and see if we can get a result.

“What it comes down to is trying to make your own luck by being brave and positive, and over the last year or so that is the way we have been.

"We have had that mode of trying to challenge the big teams, to give them a game. Sometimes it has not worked out, but that is the way I hope we go about taking them on.”

The desire to turn the “Big Six” into a “Big Seven”, and to consistently threaten these sides, is what fuelled West Ham’s transfer activity this summer.

Jarrod Bowen - David Moyes has broken barriers at West Ham, but away trips to the 'Big Six' are his nemesis
England international Jarrod Bowen was on the scoresheet as West Ham beat Chelsea at the London Stadium last season CREDIT: Shutterstock
Moyes was desperate to add quality, targeting players who could elevate West Ham as a team rather than just padding out the squad, and there is now much more quality at his disposal than in his first few years in east London – even if playmaker Lucas Paqueta will be absent on Sunday due to injury.

His reference to his team showing more “bravery” in the past year is perhaps an indication of what Moyes believes has gone wrong over the seasons. Has there been too much caution from his players, too much respect for the league’s most illustrious opponents?

The Scot’s record at Old Trafford, as a visiting manager, would suggest so. In 15 matches there his teams have scored just 10 goals, and 40 per cent of those came in one game: a chaotic 4-4 draw in April 2012, when Moyes was in charge of Everton.

With international stars such as Thilo Kehrer, Kurt Zouma, Declan Rice, Jarrod Bowen and Gianluca Scamacca in their team, West Ham should have more class, personality and courage than at any time in Moyes’s reign.

If they are to continue to push forward, they need to be able to show it away to the most formidable opponents. And if Moyes can smash that barrier, lifting his personal curse, then West Ham’s development as a club could enter a new phase.

The White Horse 10:15 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

“He’s got credit in the bank”
Oh do fuck orf.

We’re going nowhere with this tartan tosser. And the worse thing is that Declan can see it too.
If many of the fan base are frustrated with the
shite tactics you can bet he is. Shame because had we a more innovative manager at the helm then I think he may have stayed -
quite possibly.

Side of Ham 3:47 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Very true Russ, they would probably also accept the alternative nickname too.....

Russ of the BML 3:43 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Side of Ham 3:05 Tue Nov 1

"but apparently we should just be happy to turn up mob handed each season to watch them beat us."

Luckily for Moyes large chunks of our support are also happy with this.

Side of Ham 3:05 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Someone needs to ask Moyes who our league rivals should be now we are not in a relegation scrap every other season.......if he states historical mid table clubs then you know he can't push the club on with the big spend he has been given.....if he states the top clubs then he needs to be sacked as he's clearly got a history of being a guaranteed points supplier for them every fucking season especially in away games......West Ham's support wants us to be rivals with the top clubs....to do this you have to be able to beat a few of them quite regularly....but apparently we should just be happy to turn up mob handed each season to watch them beat us.

Maybe we should change our nickname to The Aluminiums?

wd40 2:59 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

No doubt his done a good job the last two years but the Brighton result at Liverpool where they took them on in every piece of the pitch for the full 90 minutes has tipped the balance with me .

We have much better players then them in my opinion and having Rice a world class player to use .

SullyHammer 2:25 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Manuel 2:02 Tue Nov 1

I am also sick of this too. He even quoted something recently (think it was after the Man U game) how when he took over we were fighting relegation and a few years on people are now saying how we should be getting something from the likes of United away.

He needs to stop riding off that wave, it's becoming tedious now.

Lee Trundle 2:08 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

His comments after the Everton defeat infuriated me.


“If you look back, we felt we were dropping down and we were aware of that and we were trying to improve it.

I recognised it probably February time that we weren’t quite as strong. We chose not to bring anyone in in January and I could see it."


Everyone knew we need to strengthen in January. Where we are now, is a result of him doing fuck all back then.

Manuel 2:02 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

I'm sick of this bloke harping on about the last 2 years and past ''glories'' no real manager worth his salt would keep doing that. He's now reminding me of BFS where he is insulting fans intelligence with the stuff that he comes out with.

Pub Bigot 1:57 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

I was unaware of what an arrogant cunt Moyes was before. His quote post the Man United game posted below and his response to a journo referring to him as 'Moysey' has shown him right up.

Bollcoks to him. Credit spent, fuck off.

eusebiovic 1:17 Tue Nov 1
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Even BFS won a few games away at the big four in his Bolton days...

It's the old Einstein quote about madness with Moyes but he can't hide from a stat like that one.

BBondsBootlaces 10:02 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

For this alone he should go.

boleyn8420 8:02 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Seen Roeder. Nail head hit upon. Moyes has groundhog day and fucked up Chelsea, Scouse Cunts and Man U. Could have won all fucking 3 because despite the media swooning over them at every turn they most certainly ain't all that.

But Dismal even said " we used to be relegation fodder (nice way to describe us) now you ask if we should have won, I'll take that compliment" Ahem we are 3 points off relegation you cunt.

Please he isn't going to change, he can't change, get rid of now. It's almost a year now I've been saying that ffs

eusebiovic 7:50 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

That is a damning stat and shows that the way he approaches games against them isn't just down to a result of misfortune.

Stubborn old goatboy.

whu 4:54 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Agreed, a summary I would concur with AT

Russ of the BML 4:40 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

ATHammer 3:34 Mon Oct 31

Fair assessment.

zico 3:53 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Bloody keyboard!!

As others have said below Moyes produces workmanlike teams whose reliance seems to be on strength, height and fitness. That = goals from set pieces which the team has relied on in the last couple of years. You could see at Everton he did similar but couldn't take the next step and when he went to Man United he4 didn't know how to create an attacking side that they had been used to under Fergie.


When Lingard came in if memory serves me correctly the team was going through a lean patch, I might be wrong, but it just happened that Lingard hit a purple patch where his goals combined with our strength on set pieces created a good side with a bit of everything going forward. Moyes then obsessed with Lingard and when he couldn't get him he bizarrely didn't bring in a player who was similar. Downes in that role is as far away from how Lingard played in that role as you can get.

I'm struggling to see with all the money spent who has actually come in and made a difference. Not blaming the players, they just aren't being given a chance with the system they are asked to play. Scamacca the prime example. He isn't a lone forward in a counter-attack system.

Moyes has given us a couple of great seasons, but I just can't see him taking the next step unless he changes a habit of a lifetime.

zico 3:47 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

As others have said below Moyes produces workmanlike teams whose reliance seems t5o be on strength, height and fitness. That = goals from set pieces which the team has relied on in the last couple of years. You could see at

When Lingard came in if memory serves me correctly the team was going through a lean patch, I might be wrong, but it just happened that Lingard hit a purple patch where his goals combined with our strength on set pieces created a good side with a bit of everything going forward. Moyes then obsessed with Lingard and when he couldn't get him he bizarrely didn't bring in a player who was similar. Downes in that role is as far away from how Lingard played in that role as you can get.

ATHammer 3:34 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

The point is, and always has been, that Moyes produces workmanlike, running teams. He has never been able to manage real talent or anything other than grinding football. Consider Benrahma - a confidence player with, occasionally, something special to offer. Can anyone say that Moyes gets the best out of him or manages him well? How many of our current team are played out of position and look average to poor as a result? Can anyone honestly say that Anderson, Haller or Vlasic didn't come with solid reputations,did not perform as we would have liked under Moyes and subsequently rebuilt (or are rebuilding) their reputations elsewhere?
So, it is little surprise that Moyes has a long list of failure against the bigger teams. His default negativity is always undone by these teams (whoever he has been managing) and usually by talent, as with yesterday's goal. HIs inability to adapt his style of play and embrace the sort of talent that unlocks these teams is the route cause of his, and now our, undoing at their hands.
We were not unlucky yesterday. We turned up for the last 20 minutes. A bit more of that throughout, as opposed to sitting back first half, and who knows?
I think Moyes has surprised us all with the last two years results and can only thank him for that, but now the concern is that if he doesn't change then we will continue to be also rans. We will see the likes of Scamacca; Paquetta and, possibly, Aguerd have a torrid time for us to resume their upward trajectory elsewhere.

Dr Matt 2:58 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Basically a 22 game season.

Now Newcastle are part of the Secret Seven, that’s 14 games written off and then Brighton home and away too.

Russ of the BML 2:56 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

The blokes getting on my tits. How do you spend £170m and not improve the results or performances.

Moyes was in his element with a small squad where first team picked itself and he had no other set up and the defence that he was picking the best team from a small squad. He got them in a mindset that the best players played every game and they just had to pick themselves up and onwards.

I knew his demands for more players were vielled. He knew it too. He knew £170m investment with top class players coming in would cause him problems. And the new additions have identified his limitations as a manager.

His negativity is tedious. His man management is questionable. His ability to find a formation and pick the best team from this squad is lacking. His subs are atrocious. And his lack of flexibility is stifling.

Watching West Ham since January is like watching a person with a terminal illness. You have your good days, average days, but generally you pretty much feel like shit and have bad days. Despite huge amounts of medication you're on your way out and there's not much to do but hope for more good days before your body gives up.

Charoo 2:13 Mon Oct 31
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

31 game season - top 6 and Brighton away are write offs

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